Monotheism Or Polytheism?
Poytheism: Function: nounEtymology: French polytheisme, from Late Greek polytheos polytheistic, from Greek, of many gods, from poly- + theos god: belief in or worship of more than one god
Monotheism: Function: noun: the doctrine or belief that there is but one God
Orson Pratt – Apostle “If we should take a million of worlds like this and number their particles, we should find that there are more Gods than there are particles of matter in those worlds” – Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.345
Brigham Young – Prophet “He is our father, the father of our spirits, and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are, and is now an exalted being. How many Gods there are, I do not know. But there never was a time when there were not Gods.” - Journal of Discourses, vol.7, p.333
Heber C Kimball – Member of the First Pesidency “then we shall go back to our father and God, who is connected with one who is still farther back; and this Father is connected with one still farther back, and so on.” - Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p.19
“for our God is a natural man, the first of all mechanics. Where did he get his knowledge from? From his father, just as we get knowledge from our earthly parents.” - Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, pg 211
Orson Pratt – Apostle and Member of the Twelve “The gods who dwell in the heaven…have been redeemed from the grave in a world which existed before the foundations of this earth were laid. They and the Heavenly body which they now inhabit were once in a fallen state. They were exalted also, from fallen men to Celestial Gods to inhabit their Heaven forever and ever” – The Seer, p.23
“We were begotten by our heavenly father in Heaven; the person of our father in heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by his father; and again, he was begotten by still a more ancient father; and so on, from generation to generation. We wonder in our minds how far back the genealogy extends, and how the first world was formed, and the first father was begotten” – The Seer, p. 132
Milton Hinter – First Council of the Seventy “Mormon prophets have continuously taught the sublime truth that God the Eternal Father was once a mortal man who passed through a school of earth life similar to that through which we are now passing. He became God – an exalted being – through obedience to the same eternal Gospel truths that we are given opportunity today to obey” – Gospel Through the Ages, p. 104
“We must accept the fact that there was a time when Deity was much less powerful that He is today. Then how did he become glorified and exalted and attain His present status of Godhood? In the first place, aeons ago God undoubtedly took advantage of every opportunity to learn the laws of truth. From day to day He exerted His will vigorously, he gained more knowledge, thus he grew in experience and continued to gro until he attained the status of Godhood. In other words, He became God by absolute obedience to all the eternal laws of the Gospel.” - Gospel Through the Ages, pg. 114-115
Joseph Fielding Smith – Prophet “Some people are troubled over the statement of the Prophet Joseph Smith. The matter that seems such a mystery is the statement that our Father in heaven at one time passed through a life and death and is an exalted man. This is one of the mysteries. The prophet taught that our Father had a father and so on. Is not this a reasonable thought, especially when we remember that the promises are made to us that we may become like Him?” - Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 10,12).
Isaiah 43:10- The Word of God "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me."
You decide.....Is Mormonism polytheistic or monotheistic?
posted by Eric Hoffman @ 1:32 PM
17 comments
17 Comments:
Easy ... BOTH! LDS believe that they are monotheistic, even though they believe in an infinite number of gods.
LDS will argue that since they only *worship* one god, that they are monotheistic. They'll say that since they only pray to Heavenly Father and not Jesus, they are monotheistic.
Christians see Joseph Smith Jr.'s doctrine of "you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves" as polytheism.... actually, I think any objective analysis of it would net the same conclusion.
If you believe that there are more than one god, you are polytheistic. To the definition, "to believe in or worship more than one god."
If you believe that you can become a god yourself, you are polytheistic.
Hey B,
Dont forget that Gordon B. Hinckley said he worships Jesus Christ. So if your prophet is polytheistic then...well you get the point.
Peace...
Hello,
50% of all Christians worship Mother Mary besides God, Jesus and the holy spirit. Are Catholics polytheists too?
As an aside:
If Jesus was not created by God and Mary, but by the Holy Spirit and Mary, why is God the Father called God the Father? Shouldn't the Holy Spirit be called God the Father, and God the Father be called something else?
Linda Guernsey.
Linda,
Do you really seek an answer to this or are you trying to arouse confrontation? If you truly seek an answer then I would be more than willing to explain this to you.
Hello Eric,
no, both questions are meant honest:
1. are catholics polytheistic?
2. Why is God the Father called like this, if the holy spirit is the father of Jesus?
Wondering,
Linda Guernsey
Linda,
Let’s address your questions one at time. As I am sure you will want to comment back on the things I write. So let’s tackle the Catholic’s being polytheistic issue. Catholic’s do indeed pray to Mary and give her a great sense of recognition. Do catholic’s see Mary as a god? No. Therefore I say they do not fall into the category of polytheism. I would view this as more of a sense of idolatry. In the Bible God has expressed over and over that He is the only one due any worship and to not set any idol before Him. A good example of this would be how the Mormons glorify Joseph Smith. They do not consider him to be a god of worship but he has become an idol of distraction taking away the glory that is due to God.
Nowhere in the Bible does it give reference of praying to any of the saints or Mary. Catholics believe Mary is also sinless, but it makes reference in the Bible that no one is good, not one. (Mark 10:18, Romans 3:11)
Catholics do not believe there is more than one god in existence or in nature. They believe there is only one God over all who created everything.
Does this answer your question?
Hello Eric,
thanks for clarifying my first question. Now to the second one:
Why the term "God the father", when you so vehemently refute the LDS claim that God is the father of Jesus?
I think that Joseph Smith just had a more old-testament kind of image of God. As he has seen him in a vision, he supposed that God has a body. On the other hand, your belief in God is rather based on the new testament hellenistic belief of the distinction between body and soul, which led to a God who has no body.
"God is a spirit" only makes sense from the perspective of Greek philosophy.
Thanks for clarifying this,
Linda Guernsey.
Hey Linda,
Did my answer to your question regarding Catholics being polytheistic seem to be a rational conclusion? Do you agree?
Before we move on, can I get your stance on the Bible? Do you believe the Bible is without error and the ultimate Word of God?
Hello Eric,
yes, I would agree with you on the issue of catholics.
As for the bible, I believe that it is the word of God, as far as it was understood by human beings.
The claim that it is without error and "ultimate" is neigther stated in the bible, nor is it realistic. There are too many contradictions and errors in the bible which can easily be explained by human errors such as errors of tradition, errors of changing rather unimportant details and similar errors which are not God's fault but simply the error of the people who handed down the stories.
The boastful claim that the bible is without error is in fact only claimed at a very late date(Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy of 1978), whereas the bible itself only claims that "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."(2.Ti 3)
How is your question related to the question why God has the attribute "the father" while not being the father of Jesus?
Linda Guernsey
Well Linda,
By you saying that the Word of God is correct as far as it is translated correctly is an oxymoron. You either think it’s the incorruptible word of God or it’s not. Yes the Bible has been handed down through time by the hands of men, but keep in mind that God promised His Word would endure forever. The Septuagint was a process of translation that can be fully examined to prove the text has not been altered. The Dead Sea scrolls are another prime example. The Bible also says that scripture is God breathed.
Now going back to your original question…
”If Jesus was not created by God and Mary, but by the Holy Spirit and Mary, why is God the Father called God the Father? Shouldn't the Holy Spirit be called God the Father, and God the Father be called something else?”
First off….Mary was begotten by the Holy Spirit by immaculate conception. It was a miracle. There were not sexual relations involved. Agreed?
I think more ground work needs to be made to further explain this. Let me get an understanding on what your view on the nature of God is. By your answer regarding biblical accuracy, I would say you are either LDS or somewhat agnostic.
Hello Eric,
By you saying that the Word of God is correct as far as it is translated correctly is an oxymoron.
What I said is the following:
People had experienced with God. After handing down stories about their experiences, these stories were written down by people.
During this transmission, of course errors occured. These result in several "contradictions" which are not due to faked stories but simply to people misstating details when handing down the story. Translation is of course another issue, but the first issue is simply repeating a heard story and changing some minor details while repeating it.
The Septuagint was a process of translation that can be fully examined to prove the text has not been altered.
The septuagint claims to be translated by 70 people independently from each other. This is obviously a lie.
Let's have a look at a passage:
Dtn 32:8-9
"bəhanəḥēl ‘eləywōn gwōyim bəhafərîḏwō bənê ’āḏām yaṣṣēḇ gəḇulōṯ ‘ammîm ləmisəpar bənê yiśərā’ēl:
kî ḥēleq yəhwōâ ‘ammwō ya‘ăqōḇ ḥeḇel naḥălāṯwō:"
However, the septuagint states:
"8ote diemerizen o uyistos eqnh ws diespeiren uious adam esthsen oria eqnwn kata ariqmon aggelwn qeou"
(I suppose you are familiar with the popular transscriptions of hebrew and greek.)
So, how do you explain this total change in translation, when a literal translation would have been both possible and even more natural than this misleading translation?
By your answer regarding biblical accuracy, I would say you are either LDS or somewhat agnostic.
Eric, your problem is that you generalize evangelical Christianity to be Christianity as a whole. This is not true. Not all Christians are biblical fundamentalists.
You have to understand that.
Then you might understand that there are Christians who take a more realistic view on the bible, its creation and tradition.
By the way, many Christians actually do not adhere to your bible fundamentalist views.
Not only Mormons, but also Catholics and Protestants believe that the bible is the word of God, but it was handed down to humanity, and as such it was prone to errors.
As I stated earlier, it was only in the last century that people glorified the bible (by the way, the bible you "worship" was only created in the 16th century by removing several books from the catholic canon which was "the bible" for almost two millenia.)
So, why is God the Father called like this?
Linda Guernsey.
Linda,
Good job with copy n' paste.
Why dont you come over to the forum where we can discuss these things. This in not what I intended the blog commenting area to be. As you can see from other posters, it gets to be quite a debate. The comment area was to refer your thoughts to the post, not debate me on the subject. Thats what the forum is for. Register yourself over their and we can continue this discussion.
Linda,
Good job with copy n' paste.
Are you mocking that I quote from the bible? Do I understand that right?
Why dont you come over to the forum where we can discuss these things?
The problem about your forum, in my humble opinion, is that you and your friend who is a Calvary Chapel pastor (toothless) are exhibiting the very authoritative and despotic behavior I was criticizing.
As far as I can see, so far about a dozen users have been banned by you two for not agreeing with your opinion. You are asking them an endless number of pointless questions, and when they don't adhere to your narrow dialogue, you ban them for not answering them.
Additionally, criticising the one and only true church, namely Calvary Chapel, are interpreted as being "personal attacks", while mocking the Prophet Joseph Smith, the Buddha, Pope Benedict or others is perfectly fine.
Signing up on your closed forum, I would have to agree to this despotism, which I do not.
I think toothless' behavior on the forum reflects his adherence to Calvary Chapel doctrines very well.
All people have to bow down to his personal opinion, because, after all, they are erroneos sheep, while he is Mose, the almighty shepherd.
Na, thanks Eric, but I doubt this would be a good idea.
By your own policies, you are also shaping the group of people who enter your forum, and by now, most of them are evangelicals or people near to the evangelical religion who bow to Joe "Mose" McCormick's sermons and who make fun of Mormons, copying the very same arguments again and again, exchanging the newest youtube video Evangelicals have produced as a springboard for discussion.
Linda.
If you think I am narrow minded and dont agree with my views then why waste your time here? Why come here but not to the forum?
Eric said:
If you think I am narrow minded and dont agree with my views then why waste your time here?
I have already succeeded. Your conclusion shows that you think about yourself. "Narrowmindedness" is a good summary of the state of mind you currently are in.
I don't know why and how you got into this state in where everyone who does not agree with you is punished:
1. a person posting diverging opinions is banned from your forum (of course, Joe and you will find a reason why this person has violated one of your rules.)
2. people who do not believe in your interpretation of the bible are regarded to be unchristian, hence, they will go to eternal hell.
This kind of attitude shows that you have some kind of problem with your ego. You feel worthless, therefore you have to find something to stabilize your feelings of inferiority. The problem is, by chance you ran into evangelical Christianity. Instead of helping you with your emotional problem of feeling worthless, these people increase and exploit those feelings.
Your feelings are reinforced by the "everyone is sinner" "you are sinful, muddy, dirty, not worth of anything" doctrines.
Then, in the second step, your original identity can be superseded by an artificial Jesus-identity, preached by some Calvary Chapel pastor, created from bible-snippets, whom you can glue over your own poor self-image. "Not I, but Christ in me", this is the formula of a "new-born" or "born again" ficticious creature, Eric Hoffman(2).
Of course, most people do not go this step, probably because they didn't start of with your personal problems.
But this is an eternal affront to your new identity.
"If my Jesus is not the Jesus of everyone, I do not feel superior."
Hence, you fear that your new identity which you took over to compensate your feelings of worthlessness is attacked. It holds true for you, so it must hold true for everyone!
This leads to a tendency to proselytize other people who have a different belief.
Of course, pagans and atheists would be the first choice, but maybe that is a task too hard for you.
So you start small, you start with a group similar to evangelical christianity already: Mormonism.
Then, you only have to focus on the little differences between the Mormon God and the Evangelical God, as well as the minor differences between the two Jesuses.
Your lack of self-confidence can be seen in several areas:
1. You desperately look for people to help you:
a) In the beginning, you cooperated with Samuel the Utahnite, who was a great help to you. He taught you much about Mormonism, being a first-hand expert in the topic. You got to know many facts about the LDS church to him. However, over time it turned out that Samuel does not adhere to your new identity as a fanatic Jesus plagiate.
Hence, your former "friendship" turned into a stron hostility.
"Worldly, pornographic, not worth looking up" were a few of your descriptions.
b) You searched for new help. And you found Joe McCormick. Being a pastor at Calvary Chapel, he enforced your belief in a "grace" Jesus, which in fact means:
"I have to be more worthless, more sinfull, more dirty so that my new ego as Jesus can be more strong, bigger, better."
Joe took over the administration of parts of your forum and started banning several people with differing opinion.
When he was overwhelmed and could not argue against them, he found or enforced some violation against your newly set up rules, and then banned them.
c) As soon as someone on the forum agrees with you, you are more than happy and thankful. On the other hand, opposing views are seen as personal attacks and in themselves are violations of your forum.
For your forum's aim is to worship the evangelical Jesus who is your new ego.
When you worship Jesus, you are not worshipping an entity outside of you. It is your new ego, the "born again" creature which is an all-powerful creature.
But as not all people are evangelical Christians, this power is still bounded.
Hence, you need to convert as many people as possible to boast your own Ego, I mean, to increase the power of your Lord, who is nothing different from your own ego.
I hope this analysis of your problems do not irritate you.
Maybe you will recognize the accuracy of my descriptions.
Maybe you should think about how your change of mind has taken place, how your beliefs were inforced by visiting evangelical churches, how you developed into a fanatic whose only aim is to convert, who worships an invisible Jesus who cannot be separated from your Christian identity as a "new creature".
But as we all know, knowledge is power, and you can use your insight into these unhealthy mechanisms to overcome them.
Good luck in doing so,
Linda Guernsey
(No, I won't do a psychotherapy with you on your podcast.)
Jane/Linda,
Thankyou. I truly feel blessed!
God Bless....
-Eric
Proverbs 18:2
Linda interesting ideas would it be ok if posted them to an exmormon blog?
Post a Comment
<< Home