God's Grace Should Be Given According To My Worthiness?
According to Elaine S. Dalton, who is second counselor to the Young Woman General Presidency, there comes a time when we need to count on the Lord's blessings, not because of His mercy but because of our worthiness.
At what point do you feel you are worthy of God's grace?
The word "grace" literally means a gift given to the undeserving. Do Mormons actually think they are worthy of anything that God has for us? The only person who was able to live up to any kind of worthiness is Christ Jesus. So it is to Christ's worthiness that we walk in and not our own.The LDS church continually puts emphasis on remaining worthy in order to receive God's love and blessings. Mormons are forever trying to earn merit from God rather than loving him for the debt that was already paid through Jesus Christ. We will never be worthy of God's gifts which is given by grace.
Scriptural References:
Romans 11:6
Romans 3:23
Ephesians 2:8
posted by Eric Hoffman @ 2:41 PM
14 comments
14 Comments:
Just listned to this conference address....It reminded me of a time about 2 1/2 years ago, right after I left the church and had accepted Jesus Christ as my savior, and I was still a new Christian, a little leery of the newfound freedom I had gained in Christ - I was SOOOO used to the structured environment of the LDS Church. There were times, after leaving that I missed that structure. I went back to visit my ward during conference time, and one of the apostles was speaking, whose name I can't remember. His wife had passed away very recently, and he was kind of eulogizing her, which was fine - until he said, in effect, that she had earned her way right into Heaven!!(the highest Mormon Heaven is the celestial kingdom) I got up and walked out after that, just stunned that I once actually believed that. The Grace of Jesus is so simple, so profound, so UNDESERVED...............but it's ours for the asking!!! Praise Him for His unfailing Love!!!!
Amen Jt!!
If we were to be given what we deserve we would all be paying the penalty for our own sins.
God Bless...
-Eric
Keeping Commandments is vital in the plan of salvation. Although born-again evangelicals like to neglect this part of the Gospel by stressing other scriptures and/or blatantly ignoring scriptures which do point out the importance of morality and sticking to rules of conduct, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, by proclaiming the fulness of the Gospel, also points out the importance of keeping the Lord's Commandments.
Let's have a look at some verses you will probably deleted with a red marker, because it disturbs your personal "gospel":
Jhn 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."
Jhn 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him."
On the other hand, people who don't abide in the commandments of the lord, obviously don't love him:
Jhn 14:24 "He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me."
I don't know why you preach, using only half of the bible (probably the only half you have ever read), and try to preach to us Mormons who have the fulness of the Gospel, as taught throughout the whole bible, the book of Mormon and modern day revelation.
Maybe you should first read the bible from cover to cover and understand it in its entirety, before preaching particularities like "Grace, not works" (ignoring James completely!) and other born-again oddities.
James M.
Well James,
I fully understand that God's grace is not a free ticket to sin, but none the less I continue to sin and continue to strive to grow closer to the Lord. But I will always fall short.(Romans 3:23) That's why Jesus went to the cross.
So James, Do you keep ALL the commandments?
You said so yourself that keeping the commandments is a vital part of salvation.
Seeing that I know I can not keep ALL the commandments; especially when it says in James 2:10 that if we break one law we are guilty of the entire law, the commandments more so put me to my knees thanking Jesus that he fulfilled something I am not worthy of. Now that I know Jesus is my savior my works are proof of my love. More so proof to common man, not to God. My works do not save me.
James you are entangled in a gospel that can not be achieved.
God Bless you my friend...
In Him,
-Eric
"James you are entangled in a gospel that can not be achieved."
"We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do ."
(2. Nephi 25:23)
It is not necessary to fulfill all the laws every time to earn one's salvation.
On the other hand, your "we don't deserve salvation, it is only through grace" has the problem that many people understand it that they don't have to put any effort into becoming better persons.
Grace here, grace there, they don't try one bit to become better, become friendlier, to become more Christlike.
And in the end, God's grace was all in vain, they are as sinful as they always were, they are as bad as they always were.
There is no difference between a non-christian and a born-again Christian in their outer conduct.
They curse, they lie, they cheat, they steal.
Why should one be "saved" and the other not?
If we don't try our best, why should God save one person and not the other? While you are right that we all are not perfect, it is nonsense that we should not try our best.
You are proclaiming an anti-christian morality.
"I don't need to try to be better, because that would diminish God's grace. So lets be as immoral as possible, then God's grace is even greater."
That is why, there is no difference between born-again Christians and non-Christians.
They behave as bad, bigotted and nasty as the pagans do.
James
James you have made some assertions that in nature show me you are not trying your best as shown in 2 Nephi 25:23.
You do not know me and to make negative assertions that you do is sin.
Example:
you said..
"I don't know why you preach, using only half of the bible (probably the only half you have ever read)"
Also...
"Maybe you should first read the bible from cover to cover and understand it in its entirety, before preaching particularities like "Grace, not works" (ignoring James completely!) and other born-again oddities."
and again.....
"You are proclaiming an anti-Christian morality."
These are mean things to say that have no validity because you have never met me. Go ahead and critique my theology, but do not begin to make assumptions about my character.
Now... I know there are many people who claim to know Jesus and by their actions you would have thought quite the opposite. This is distasteful to God and considered blasphemy in the eyes of God.
Now try to sincerely understand me here James….
If one truly wants a relationship with Jesus Christ and wants to grow in Him don’t you think they would try to walk in his foot steps? If one truly believes in Christ and confesses with their mouth his is Lord and want s to turn from their sins, the spirit will help that person walk righteously in Christ.
Do you understand this? I sincerely want you to understand what I am saying. If you don’t or disagree please let me know.
The way I see it in Mormonism is one must do his part in order to receive Jesus. It seems that LDS are trying to earn Christ by their good works. Am I wrong here?
Let’s go back to the verse you referred to in the Book of Mormon. (2 Nephi 25:23)
If you are saved by grace AFTER ALL you can do, when is that??? Are you doing everything you can do?
Grace and Peace my friend…
-Eric
"If one truly wants a relationship with Jesus Christ and wants to grow in Him don’t you think they would try to walk in his foot steps? If one truly believes in Christ and confesses with their mouth his is Lord and want s to turn from their sins, the spirit will help that person walk righteously in Christ."
I totally agree with this statement, this is the reason why the LDS church stresses the notion of "keeping the commandments" (="walking in his footsteps").
"The way I see it in Mormonism is one must do his part in order to receive Jesus. It seems that LDS are trying to earn Christ by their good works. Am I wrong here?
Let’s go back to the verse you referred to in the Book of Mormon. (2 Nephi 25:23)
If you are saved by grace AFTER ALL you can do, when is that??? Are you doing everything you can do?"
Here you make a wrong assumption about the LDS beliefs. Humanity is sinfull. Therefore, we can never live up to all commandments stated by God and Jesus. Therefore, Jesus sacrifice was necessary to save us.
However, if we are not interested in Jesus, don't even try to live up to his commandments, don't give a damn about morality and righteousness, this shows that we don't deserve God's grace.
Would you like to be a friend of someone who always treats you bad, says nasty things about you, etc?
In the same way, Jesus wants us to follow his commandments. Even if we are not perfect, we should try as hard as possible to live up to them.
And this effort to do good is
"all we can do".
The wrong assumption you make is:
"We can be perfect. Therefore, if we do a single sin, we fall short of the rule "all we can do".
But as we are not perfect, we will always fall short.
Therefore, the Mormon Gospel doesn't work."
However, the LDS church does not make the wrong assumption that we can be perfect.
"All we CAN do" takes into account our own imperfection. Therefore, if you have a bad day and don't greet your neighbor friendly the way you should, you will not burn in hell forever (you like to condemn other people, don't you?), because Jesus sacrificed himself for your lack of perfection.
But if you don't give a damn and always treat your neighbors like shit, why should Jesus pay interest in such a rude and immoral person?
The philosopher Aristotle pointed out an important principle:
Virtue always lies between two extremes.
For example, generosity lies between being avarice and wastefulness.
Let's apply this principle to our situation:
One extreme would be the utter perfectionists. If we do a single sin, we will burn in hell forever.
This is a bit like what the Pharisees taught. However, Jesus pointed out that even they fall short of the strict moral code of the Mosaic law.
The other extreme, in my opinion, is the born-again-grace-alone standpoint. Because they see salvation to come by grace alone, there is no connection between morality and salvation anymore. Therefore, people don't care about morality, because there is no connection between putting an effort into living a moral and chaste life and your relationship to Christ and your salvation.
The formula
"We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do ."
(2. Nephi 25:23)
is the virtue which lies between these two extremes. On the one hand, we don't have to be perfect, which we cannot, because Jesus died for our sins. On the other hand, we STRIVE to be perfect, we try to live morally and pure.
The commandments of Jesus are an ideal. We cannot totally live up to it, because we are sinful. Yet, it is a norm, and so we should try to live up to it as far as possible ("after all we can do").
In my opinion, you assume that the LDS church has a wrong view on salvation, but in fact it is yourself who does not see things as they are.
God didn't give the commandments to put everyone into hell, because they inevitably fail to fulfill it.
He gave them so that we use them as an ideal and show some effort.
As we cannot be perfect, Jesus died for the remaining sins we made.
As I pointed out, the LDS Gospel is the virtue between two extremes.
One extreme is the pharisaic ideal of perfect conduct,
the other extreme is the born-again Christian's slack morality which has no connection to salvation at all.
James
James,
Please refrain from swearing ok.
It's not needed, and to tell you the truth I am a little shocked that you are willing to use that kind of language here. It seems to me you want me to know that you know the LDS gospel is true, but care little in the sense that you want me to enter it.
James...again I ask, are you doing ALL you can do? A simple yes or no is all that is needed my friend.
Again, you are assuming ALL Christians do not act Christ-like.
I suggest you get in contact with me and we can talk about this or you can meet in person or via skype, phone, whatever. I extend this offer to just about every person I encounter, but few to none ever are willing to dialogue. It seems to me that if one were secure in their beliefs that this offer would be of great value. What do you say?
Hello Eric,
Yes, I am doing all I can do.
I am giving my best to live up to the standards of a good LDS person.
I love Jesus and respect his commandments. If I do a mistake, I know that Jesus died for my imperfections. That includes occasional swearing.
James M.
James couldn't you have refrained from swearing in your last post?
If you are doing all you can do I would think you would have also apologized to me for swearing on my blog.
James,
If you were to die right now where would you go?
Hello Kolage,
ok, I apologize for swearing on your blog. However, I think you are exaggerating by thinking that swearing on someone else's blog is an inexcusable sin which leads to eternal hell.
Mt 23:24
"Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel."
I think that your intolerance against everyone who does not believe as you is far more offensive to God and Jesus than using curse words.
As an LDS, I don't believe that everyone who is not member of our church will go to hell. Instead, members who are very worthy can enter into a higher kingdom called the celestial kingdom.
As I don't hold a temple recommend, I still have to work on myself (including my occasional cursing!)
But I think that I am on the right track.
On the other hand, your judgemental attitudes shown on this blog and in your podcasts will lead to God judging you at similarly high standards, which will lead to a BIG problem, my friend.
So, stop picking at other's failures and work on yourself, Kolage.
That way, we will all benefit.
James.
James,
I am not attacking peoples attributes or "good intentions." I cant because they have nothing to do with faith. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Faith produces good works….but good works do not save you. Read Romans 11:6. James your church should not view you by your good deeds (concerning your temple worthiness). See Isaiah 64:6-7
This is not about flesh and blood but rather a spiritual warfare. James the bible does not give any evidence that there are three heavens. In fact to go further, Paul’s warning to the Galatians should strike a cord with you. See Galatians 1:6-9
I do not think that swearing is going to send you to hell. But I do think believing in a Jesus that is not the real Jesus will. You need to ask yourself…which Jesus do you worship and if you don’t worship the right one then you do not have the savior to save you from your sins. Read 1 John 5:12
James this is not my interpretation of the Bible. It is the word of God. We are told that their are false Jesus' and false apostles who are like sheep in wolves clothing.
The Jehovah Witnesses believe that Jesus is Michael the archangel. This is something that you and I would both disagree on. Correct? So where do they stand if they are following a false Christ?
James you have the right believe whatever you want, but you must make sure what you believe is right.
Your reference to Matthew 23:24 is written to believers. It is in the sense that we should not judge each other for we all fall short of God, but rather keep each other. James I am not judging Mormons. I am spreading the true biblical gospel. I am concerned for your salvation.
So James I still have some questions that are unanswered
1. If you were to die right now, where would you go?
2. If someone does not believe in Jesus are they subject to God’s judgment?
3. Since you are not doing ALL you can do…..(which is by your own admission) because if you were swearing and it’s a sin to swear, and you could have not done it, shows me you are not doing ALL you can do…. Does this mean you are not saved by grace?
Grace and Peace to you in Jesus Christ....
-Eric
Hello Eric,
"...but good works do not save you. Read Romans 11:6."
Yet, James states:
"But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass..."(Jam 1:22-23)
"James the bible does not give any evidence that there are three heavens."
It does, but not as clearly as we could wish. The vagueness in which the three kingdoms are described in the bible is due to the fact that this clear gospel principle was distorted by the apostatic church.
Cf D&C 76 introduction:
"...it was apparent that many important points touching the salvation of man had been taken from the Bible, or lost before it was compiled. It appeared self-evident from what truths were left, that if God rewarded every one according to the deeds done in the body, the term ‘Heaven,’ as intended for the Saints’ eternal home, must include more kingdoms than one."
For fragments of the true doctrine of the three kingdoms, cf. for example 1. Cor 15:40
"There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another."
Take also into account that the bible often uses the word "heavenS" (plural!), although the singular was grammatically correct.
The word "heavens" is used 133 times in the bible, an example for the singular heaven can be found in 1. Cor 15:47. (just to prevent you from making false assumptions about greek grammar).
But you are right, the three kingdoms were only fully explained when the Church of Jesus Christ was restored by Joseph Smith.
"But I do think believing in a Jesus that is not the real Jesus will. You need to ask yourself…which Jesus do you worship and if you don’t worship the right one then you do not have the savior to save you from your sins. Read 1 John 5:12
James this is not my interpretation of the Bible. It is the word of God."
It is the word of God, but you misinterpret it and take it out of context, and this changes the situation totally. If you would interpret the bible and the other scriptures as God had intended them, you would derive other conclusions, yet, because you take a twisted and wrong interpretation, you nullify the word of God and make it into a farce.
"The Jehovah Witnesses believe that Jesus is Michael the archangel. This is something that you and I would both disagree on. Correct? So where do they stand if they are following a false Christ?"
The Jehova's witnesses simply don't have the fulness of the Gospel. The same holds true for catholics and protestants, who don't accept the book of Mormon as scripture and thus don't have the fulness of the Gospel.
"It is in the sense that we should not judge each other for we all fall short of God, but rather keep each other. James I am not judging Mormons."
Keep your own words in mind:
You are not judging !
"1. If you were to die right now, where would you go?"
As I am not married in the temple, I would go to the terrestial kingdom.
"2. If someone does not believe in Jesus are they subject to God’s judgment?"
Yes, but they are subject to God's judgement, not to your judgement. And in contrast to your judgement, God judges justly, which means, he takes into account our sinful nature and our weaknesses.
"3. Since you are not doing ALL you can do…..(which is by your own admission) because if you were swearing and it’s a sin to swear, and you could have not done it, shows me you are not doing ALL you can do…. Does this mean you are not saved by grace?"
The fact that I do not do ALL I can do is your personal interpretation and YOUR JUDGEMENT. You contradict yourself, because some lines up you state that we should not judge, yet you are constantly judging me and condemning me because I used a strong word to describe the bad behavior of some evangelicals in a figurative language. I am only not doing all I can do according to your standard, which is a perfect standard of not doing a single sin.
However, we are all sinners.
The base of judgement is the mosaic law, and we probably all fail to hold up the law (do you burn your chair if your wife sits on it during her period? You should!)
Again, it is you who is judging, not God.
Read the story of the adultrous woman (John 8).
It was not Jesus who wants to stone the woman, but the self-righteous pharisees. And you are one of them, willing to cast the first stone, yet being sinful yourself!
Think about that,
James
James,
This is seeming fruitless and would be much better dialogued in person or over the phone.
You can skype me...
"livingtruth.eric" is my skype name.
Much to discuss my friend.
God bless...
-Eric
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