Mitt Romney And Mormonism
posted by Eric Hoffman @ 10:32 AM
31 comments
One Living Truth Ministry
...Walking in the righteousness of Christ and not my own
...Walking in the righteousness of Christ and not my own
31 Comments:
There are many churches which claim to be christian, but in reality they are wolves in sheeps' clothes.
Mormonism is among them.
The same holds true for other churches who claim to hold the authority of God to govern other people in some kind of theocracy.
Those churches include Jehova's witnesses and Calvary Chapel.
A few quotes:
Theocracy: Jehovah's Witnesses do not have a democratic organization. They submit to the rigid control of a few leaders and believe that the entire organization is under the direct rule of Jehovah. They believe they have a theocratic ministry to perform.
(source:http://www.4truth.net/site/apps/nl/content3.asp?c=hiKXLbPNLrF&b=784547&ct=981311)
Chuck Smith (Calvary Chapel founder):
In the church today we see this structure in a modified form. We see that Jesus Christ is the Head over the body of the church. It's His church. He's the One in charge. As pastors, we need to be like Moses, in touch with Jesus and receiving His direction and guidance. As pastors we need to be leading the church in such a way that the people know that the Lord is in control. Then, when issues come up, we can say, "Well, let me pray about that." "Let me seek the wisdom of the Lord on this." "Let's look for the Lord's guidance." Also, like Moses, within the church we have a Board of Elders who are there to pray with us and support us in seeking the Lord's leading for the church.
http://www.calvarychapel.com/?show=Resources.Ebooks.calvarychapeldistinctives#02
There are many dangerous cults claiming to be true Christianity. Mormonism, Jehova's witnesses, Calvary Chapel and many others are dangerous in that on the surface they seem to be biblical, but the internal structure is despotic, yeah, even satanic.
Let us warn the world,
God bless you,
Rick Simson.
Chuck Smith's quote here bares no conflict with me. Even if it did, Chuck CMith DOES NOT represent me.
Thanks for the comment Rick. Anything you wanna say regarding the topic you posted on....the video??
Hello Eric,
the video was a warning against cults which claim to be christian. That was the reason why I wanted to broaden this warning not only to Mormonism, but to remind people that there are many cults which on the surface level seem to be christian, but deep inside are not.
The thought control and dictatorship-like structures in many "christian" churches are authoritative. People who are at the top of the hierarchy are supposed to be nearer to God than normal people.
This holds true for the Watchtower Society, which claims to have the ultimate interpretation of the bible.
In the same way, Calvary Chapel pastors are not responsible to people in their congregation but "only to God".
However, since God in our times rarely intervenes if things go wrong, they are factually despots which are not controlled by anyone and can promote their personal attitudes as the will of God.
In the LDS church, similar things can be found. Different first presidents, because they are supposed to be directly connected to God, promoted their personal views on the Godhead and other things. The result is the mess called Mormon Theology. Sometimes, Adam is God, sometimes, the Godhead is three personages, the book of Mormon is rather trinitarian.
These contradictions are due to an uncontrolled hierarchy which thinks to be directed by God.
Such despotic structures are dangerous in all churches, in Mormonism, in the Watchtower Society, in Calvary Chapel.
As I quoted above, the despotic church government labeled as "theocracy" is one of the "Calvary Chapel distinctives", it is what seems to make Calvary Chapel unique.
Stating that Chuck Smith does not represent you over and over is like Catholics stating that Pope Benedict does not represent them.
If Chuck Smith does not represent you, then you are not a member of the Calvary Chapel denomination.
(Calvary Chapel denies to be a denomination, because they believe to be the only true christianity, the "body of Christ", whereas a denomination is rather a distinctive part of Christianity with particular beliefs.)
As for the video, not much new information apart from the everlasting mantra of the same old distinctives between the LDS church and evangelical Christianity.
I think since Ed Decker's "The Godmaker" series there are few films which were really innovative in their content and not only recyclings of the same stuff.
By the way, you complain that my posting was not directly related to the film.
How about the film itself?
Was it directly related to Mitt Romney?
Or was it just a stupid starting point to repeat the same old anti-lds charade?
You should not complain about things you promote/do yourself.
Have a nice day,
Rick Simson.
Rick said:
"How about the film itself?
Was it directly related to Mitt Romney?
Or was it just a stupid starting point to repeat the same old anti-lds charade?"
I guess you over looked the begining statement where it said that, "This film is more about Mormonism that it is about Romney. Let's use an interview Romney did on the Charlie Rose Show FOR A SPRINGBOARD OF CONVERSATION."
Rick,
The calvary I attend is totally not abiding by the rules if what you claim is true. And if you soncerely cared maybe you could recommend a church in my area that does teach solid Biblical Christianity. But that's not why you are here.
Bring it out to the open Rick! Debate me on a podcast. Bring your complaints(rants) to the open forum.
Eric Hoffman said:
The calvary I attend is totally not abiding by the rules if what you claim is true.
Then your pastor should read the book "Calvary Chapel distinctives", also found online at:
http://www.calvarychapel.com/?show=Resources.Ebooks.calvarychapeldistinctives
Of course, individual pastors may behave quite differently from what the church authorities teach. You will find that in many denominations:
There are many LDS people who think the church should stress Jesus more than Joseph Smith.
Recently, Pope Benedict has prayed with a Mufti in a Turkish Mosque. A few days later, Bishop Meissner (Germany) forbade Catholic students to take part in interreligious celebrations.
Not all Jehova's witnesses would let their children die if they needed a blood transfusion.
So maybe your local pastor does not abide as strongly in Chuck Smith's doctrines as in Christian Principles.
However, you judge the LDS church only about their high Church officials, yet you don't judge Calvary Chapel by its founder Chuck Smith but by your local pastor who might be quite far from "Calvary Chapel distinctives".
"Chuck Smith does not represent me" reminds me of the endless debates of who represents the LDS church.
Many LDS apologists point out that they don't represent the church.
FARMS, FAIR, any individual outside the hierarchy first talks about Mormonism for hours and then says:
"Well, that cannot be taken to be an official church statement..."
You live in ultimate relativity in the same way Mormons do.
How does that fit?
Have a nice day,
Rick Simson
Rick still waiting for you to answer my questions....
Eric Hoffman said:
Thanks for the comment Rick. Anything you wanna say regarding the topic you posted on....the video??
Rick said:
Hello Eric,
the video was a warning against cults which claim to be christian...
As far as I see it, I have answered your question.
But your main reason to state this is to delete all my comments, because this is how you work in your forum: repeating over and over
"Answer my questions" "answer my questions" without actually having asked substantial ones.
Then you can state "Oh, you have violated my policies" and can ban people, delete their entries etc.
Have you learnt that at Calvary Chapel's inhouse minister training?
Now back to my question:
Why are you so biased towards Calvary Chapel when it shows exactly the same flaws the LDS church does?
If you are a member of Calvary Chapel, why does Chuck Smith not represent you, when Chuck Smith is the founder of Calvary Chapel and the distinctives of Calvary Chapel reflect his personal theology?
You should recognize that Christiainity is divided into many denominations, and as soon as you take a stance on some issues, you will inevitably fall into one of these denominations. Ignoring then and claiming to be a "christian" in general only fogs the problem, because then you as a christian will meet another christian who holds opposing views. And whom can you condemn? Are mormons christian? Are catholics christian? Are Jehovas Witnesses christian? Who draws the line? The bible does not draw the line and states which doctrines are necessary to get into the evangelical heaven.
Some believe baptism to be necessary for salvation, you do not.
Consequently, you differ from all catholics and many protestants in your opinion. How can your personal opinion represent christianity as a whole, when over 70% of christianity does hold the opposing view?
So would you answer my questions?
Or are you ashamed?
Rick,
If I stopped going to Calvary chapel would all your arguments against me fall by the wayside? I used to attend Santa Cruz bible church. I held the same view on cults who teach tritheism, deny deity of Christ, and claim the bible is not the ultimate word of God.
Jehovah’s witnesses teach that God created Jesus and he is Michael the Archangel. This denies Christ’s deity.
Mormons claim that Jesus is another god who was the illegitimate offspring of a polygamist gods sexual and incestual relationship. This denies deity. They also do not think the Bible is the ultimate Word of God.
Catholics practice unnecessary rituals which distract them from God’s grace, which was given as a free gift that does not require our works. Catholics do not deny the deity of Christ, therefore I think some Catholics can be considered Christian. But keep in mind some catholic doctrine is simply not Christian.
You asked who draws the line….The answer is Jesus. The Bible clearly describes who Christ is and what is needed in order to be saved. If you are unaware of it, then perhaps you need to get in the Word some more.
Examples:
1 John 5:12
Acts 4:12
John 14:6
Matthew 4:4
Start with those. Remember Jesus said them, not me.
I do not draw the conclusion that Calvary chapel is the only way to Salvation. Please show me where I said that. Please provide me where I think that the body of Calvary is an isolated group outside the ultimate body of Christ.
Rick the one question you have still not answered is...Can you recommend a church in the area that would teach me a solid view of Christianity. It’s obvious what you don’t believe. What is it that you do believe?
A church Rick…a church. Can you recommend one?
Did I answer all you questions? If there is something I missed please let me know.
In Christ,
-Eric
Psalm 18:2
Hello Eric,
If I stopped going to Calvary chapel would all your arguments against me fall by the wayside?
This is where you made a mistake in the first place. I am not arguing against you. You identify yourself with Calvary Chapel, hence, when I criticize Calvary Chapel, you feel personally attacked and hence react aggressive.
Catholics practice unnecessary rituals which distract them from God’s grace, which was given as a free gift that does not require our works. Catholics do not deny the deity of Christ, therefore I think some Catholics can be considered Christian. But keep in mind some catholic doctrine is simply not Christian.
Now you are drawing lines within the body of Christ. Catholics make up about 50% of Christianity.
Keep this in mind, I will come to this in the next paragraph.
I do not draw the conclusion that Calvary chapel is the only way to Salvation. Please show me where I said that. Please provide me where I think that the body of Calvary is an isolated group outside the ultimate body of Christ.
Here you again have a wrong view of yourself. The problem is not that you consider the body of Calvary an isolated group outside the body of Christ, but you consider your own denominational views to be general christianity, while equally denominational views of other people are outside Christianity.
Both Catholics and members of Calvary Chapel are Christians, nevertheless they hold different views on certain doctrinal topic.
And now is where the problem starts.
Instead of recognizing these doctrinal differences as equally valid, you condemn the respective other group of being un-christian, while your personal doctrinal view is the only true and christian one.
On the surface, you do not claim that only Calvary Chapel is the way towards salvation, but in practice you claim that the doctrinal view Calvary Chapel and therefore you hold is the only valid view on christian doctrine, and all others are wrong if they differ from your view.
Of course, denominations which hold similar views, like Baptists do, can be considered as Christians from your perspective, because they agree with you on your doctrine, while people who have differing opinion are excluded.
So while on the surface level you pretend to portray a "huge body of Christ" with many denominations in it, on the deep level you put everyone who holds different doctrinal views outside the body of Christ, which your personal theology is the center of.
As far as I have seen, several people have criticized Calvary Chapel for several reasons. But most often, those points were rather directed to your view that everyone who holds a doctrinal view different from you is defamed as being unchristian.
Is my characterization correct?
Of course I can only judge according your own statements on this website.
Rick Simson.
P.S.:
Rick the one question you have still not answered is...Can you recommend a church in the area that would teach me a solid view of Christianity?
In your area, I would recommend:
Tree of Life Lutheran Church
1080 N 470 W
Orem, UT
801-802-8733
Also have a look at this event:
http://www.lehicity.com/communitycouncil/files/Lehi_Interfaith_flyer.pdf
But don't annoy anyone by handing out flyers.
Rick you said,
"Is my characterization correct?
No it's not. And if you want to understand any further you can skype me or personally email me and I can give you my phone number.
Do you live in the area? We can even meet. Oh and by the way, the flyer you gave me is partly hosted by LDS and a very strange couple who I personally know. Judy and Cliff Dunston are LDS who a spiritists who actively make their living practicing kinesiology.
I have been in many heated discussions with Cliff Dunston as he was a close associate of my father.
Thanks for the link on the church.
Grace and Peace in Christ….
-Eric
Hi folks,
here is an interesting link about Gnosticism.
You will probably find this article intriguing and insightful.
Cheers,
Ronald
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/061210/18gospels.htm
Hey Eric,
I have just found an interesting text about Chuck Smith senior and junior.
As you revere Chuck Smith so much, you might want to read this article.
Are both the father and his son christian, or has the father lost his son to utter paganism?
Whom will you condemn?
I am interested in your reaction.
Greetings,
Thomas.
Link:
http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/09/02/father-son-and-holy-rift-preacher-sons-rock-kingdom-by-embracing-gays
Hey Thom,
Thanks for the link. I will look into it. Can you provide me information where I said I revered Chuck Smith. Also can you point me in a direction in Christianity where I can continue to have realtionship with Jesus? Or is that not why you posted your comment here?
Eric:
| Can you provide me information where
| I said I revered Chuck Smith.
You defended Chuck Smith sr. several times on this blog, especially with regard to his predictions of Jesus' second coming which somehow didn't come true, or with regard to his opinion that CC pastors should judge over their parish, being subject only to God, but not to other Christians.
This obvious trust in Chuck Smith's authority made me choose the term "reverence".
Eric:
| Also can you point me in a
| direction in Christianity where I
| can continue to have realtionship
| with Jesus? Or is that not why you
| posted your comment here?
Nothing farer than that.
Actually, I arrived at the impression that you know which direction in Christianity leads to a relationship with Jesus.
That is why, I asked you who of the two Chucks, sr. or jr. or both, is to be considered Christian.
As you deem yourself to be able to judge who is a true Christian and who is apostatic, I was asking for your graceful judgement.
With reverence,
Thomas
Whatever Thom...
Your arguements are weak and fruitless. You wanna dialogue with me you can.
Skype name: "livingtruth.eric"
Weak and fruitless?
I just pointed out to this article, and you probably have not read it.
Thomas
Hello Eric,
It probably does not fit directly to this thread, but I wanna ask you anyways:
Eric, do you celebrate Christmas?
I ask, because Christmas is basically a pagan holiday, stuffed with rituals from the time Christianity merged with pagan beliefs in Europe.
The Christmas tree was derived from the pagan holly bush, Christmas cookies were symbolic animal sacrifices to the gods (wherefore many traditional cookies have the form of animals), and many other traditions were merged with the birth story of Jesus to create a syncretic holiday.
I just wondered if you engage in this idol worship called "Christmas", because it is a grave sin.
John T.
John,
I am well aware of some of these pagan traditions. Don’t forget the “Chestnuts Roasting On An Open Fire.” That was a pagan ritual that was to ward off evil spirits. In fact Christmas has more pagan association than Halloween.
I celebrate Christmas which is the celebration of Jesus’ birth. I do not give power to all the ritualistic symbols. They mean nothing to me.
Are you a Christian?
God Bless...
-Eric
Eric,
it's great to hear that at least the pagan symbols don't mean much to you.
Yet, the very date of Christmas was chosen to override a contemporary pagan festival. Ever wondered why the
shepherds stayed out during the night in the cold winter?
Well, simply because it WASN'T winter.
The date of Christmas is pagan too.
Hence, while you do not acknowledge that you take part in pagan worship ceremonies, indeed you do.
Most people do not acknowledge or even know that they perform pagan rituals when celebrating Christmas.
However, the evil power of Paganism survives through such rituals.
No wonder that Christianity is spoiled with so many pagan teachings.
I mean, Eric, you complain when Mormons wear Masonic underwear, yet, when it comes to Christmas, you join the pagan circle.
Isn't that inconsistent?
We must reject paganism as a whole, not only the paganism performed by others! Or we will be driven out of God's kingdom when Jesus returns to Earth.
God bless you Eric,
John.
You never answered my question...
Are you a christian?
Of course I am a Christian, Eric.
You should have figured that out from my commentary, couldnt you?
Greets,
John
And do you celebrate Christmas?
Hello Eric,
no I do not celebrate christmas.
First of all, christmas is not mentioned in the bible. While the birth of Jesus is described in the bible, the early church did not celebrate christmas as a holiday.
Secondly, as I mentioned above, christmas is full of superstitious beliefs which are connected to paganism.
You know that God is very strict when it comes to pagan worship. When you read through the old testament, you will find that in most stories God has to punish Israel for its worship of pagan gods.
In the same way, God will have to punish many people who consider themselves to be Christian but who in fact worship pagan gods by engaging in rituals such as Christmas.
Celebrating Christmas is as pagan as wearing holy garments, Eric.
You cannot condemn one practice while engaging in an equally cursed ritual.
John
Are you a Jehovah's Witness? The reason I am asking is to lay some ground work out for constructive dialogue.
Hello Eric,
no I am not a Jehova's Witness. However, I agree to the Jehova's Witnesses on some aspects, when they stay close to the bible.
However, some of their interpretations are far from what the bible teaches.
What denomination do you belong to, Eric?
Well John,
I do not belong to any type of denomination. I am a born again evangelical. I belong to the body of Christ. I attend a Calvary church. They teach straight out of the Bible. We believe the Bible is the ultimate word of God. We believe in One God who has revealed himself in three personages.
What church are you going to that teaches you not to celebrate Christmas but is not Jehovah’s Witnesses? Furthermore do you agree Mormonism is a polytheistic cult that denies deity?
Hello Eric,
actually, I do not attend any church, because so far I have not found any church which is not an abomination in the eye of God.
All churches I know teach unsound doctrine, makes false prophecies, celebrates pagan rituals and mingles scripture with the pipe dreams of man.
Didn't Calvary predict the second coming the same way the Watchtower did? That was one of the teachings which proved to me not to join the JVs, although they are very diligent in sticking to the bible.
But Jesus did not come back so far, neigther according to the Watchtower, nor according to the Calvary predictions.
Do you disagree?
But lets stick to the topic.
Why do you celebrate Christmas although you know it is of pagan origin, involves pagan rituals and in its core is not biblical.
Please point out any verse in Acts or in Paul's epistles which proves that the Early Church celebrated Christmas.
If not, you are celebrating pipedreams of men in the same way the Catholic Church added saint by saint, dogma by dogma to core Christianity.
Eric, this is a serious topic.
Don't you remember what God did when the people of Israel did not follow his commandments?
They had to suffer a lot, and many people died. Their stubborn character led them through the desert for fourty years.
However, even in today's times, people continue to worship the golden calf in its new forms, such as celebrating pagan holidays like Christmas, Easter, Halloween or others.
No wonder our world is facing great threats such as terrorism, natural disasters, epidemies, shortage of oil, etc., when Christianity has not given up worshipping pagan gods and fulfilling their rituals.
Eric, you claim to be a Christian, but do you behave like one?
Didn't God command us NOT to worship idols?
John
John,
I do not worship idols. Chuck Smith did not predict the second coming no more than you are boasting your own opinions about ALL fellowships being an abomination in the eyes of God. You want to further dialogue you can skype me or email me and I can give you my phone number.
Till then,
Grace and Peace to….
-Eric
Psalm 18:2
Hello Eric,
the lie that Chuck Smith did not engage in false prophecies probably stem from your local Calvary pastor.
Let's have a look at what wikipedia states about Chuck Smith.
If you don't believe this text, simply look up the book Chuck Smith has written.
"The founder of the Calvary Chapel system is the charismatic Pastor Chuck Smith. Some years ago, he published a book entitled End Times. On the jacket of his book, Smith is called a "well known Bible scholar and prophecy teacher." In this book he wrote: "As we look at the world scene today, it would appear that the coming of the Lord is very, very, close. Yet, we do not know when it will be. It could be that the Lord will wait for a time longer. If I understand Scripture correctly, Jesus taught us that the generation which sees the 'budding of the fig tree', the birth of the nation Israel, will be the generation that sees the Lord's return; I believe that the generation of 1948 is the last generation. Since a generation of judgment is forty years and the tribulation lasts seven years, I believe the Lord could come back for his church anytime before the tribulation starts, which would mean anytime before 1981. (1948 + 40 - 7 = 1981) However, it is possible that Jesus is dating the beginning of the generation from 1967, when Jerusalem was again under Israeli control for the first time since 587 B.C. We don't know for sure which year acturally marks the beginning of the last generation." (pages 35, 36). This same viewpoint was published by the popular Pastor Hal Lindsey in his widely published book entitled The Late Great Planet Earth (see page 43)."
Both the Watchtower Society and Calvary Chapel had great problems to explain why God did not come about according to their predictions.
But they found some excuse or the other. Of course, both deny that their leaders made false prophecies, but that is natural, isn't it?
Teachings based on a lie need a lot of such cover-ups.
God bless you, Eric, and may you come to reason before worshipping some idols during Christmas.
John T.
Wolves in sheep's clothings? Have any of you actually read the Book of Mormon?
Fritz,
Yes, we have indeed read the Book of Mormon fron to back among other LDS doctrines.
For a answer to your ever so commonly asked question click here to be taken to our more in depth answer on this...
Grace and peace,
-Eric
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